well yes it seems this will shift the paragim from passive income to active... which i like... more targets is a good thing...

like 2006 all over again before jump frighters.

i see it as as a shift to more pvp... for small gangs and roaming gangs...

unless you see shooting renters as grinding?

I think the intention is that roaming gangs can dump them and the sov holders have an incentive to come out and stop them.

People seem to forget that to take a valuable moon requires a large fleet and several hours of time. Lets say 200 man hours. If a fight or two happens, tack on the additional cost of lost ships etc. Some of my favorite times in null have been large fleet fights over moons.

Individuals only reap the benefits of moons in the form of alliance/corporate funds (ie: ship replacement programs, selling the goo to pay for SOV fees, system upgrades etc.).

are you trying to say that buying r64 in jita is more profitable for those "small groups" than mining it themself from the moons in the region they live? really?

Second, this would leave you entirely open to economic attack. If you rely solely on rental income, what prevents PBLRD as a bloc from ceasing rental payments and pocketing the moon goo income? Their own revenue stream would be unaffected and I doubt you have the firepower, in the absence of both moon revenue and rental income, to subdue them all in time.

This will be mind numbingly boring and a time sink with little actual payoff for the pilots participating. The money doesn't matter all that much, but endless, pointless repetition doesn't generally sit well with most players outside of high sec.

Is there anything preventing the POS owner deploying these inside their own POS shield?

Siphon units must be deployed close to a POS, outside of shields to a maximum distance of 50 kilometers from the control tower.

At least not whiles it's AFK passive income.

Moon mining should be something a player has to get into a ship and undock for.

b) have a character limit on how many siphons you can deploy (i.e. have in space at the same time). This would probably be in the 5 to 10 range.

It's about making it harder to detect it while you aren't logged in the game. Want to secure your POS? Go, and actually play EVE Online.

To be clear, I ******* love the idea of siphons but the implementation has to be sane. Leave it like this and all you do is give even more reason for pos managers to hate life.

I love it, Now moon mining is no longer a *Passive Income*

I wouldn't be surprised at all if alliance members go round nicking their own alliances moon-goo.

thankfully I don't have to patrol my 20 POS continuously"

lol at all the ohmagawd the API will Lie! posts from Goons. I Wonder why that is? Broken your automatic warning system?

One of the main things we have needed are small scale mechanics and objectives for combat (normal or economical) that do not require a blob to engage in. The ability for small groups or solo players to both deploy these and also to steal from/detect/destroy them is actually an excellent step in the right direction.

Or CCP is well aware of what was good and bad about POS warfare, and have specifically crafted this mechanic to avoid the tedium of timers, massive hit points to chew through, and general boredom involved... and encourage small gang/solo objectives (both economic and physical combat) that can be staged in a timezone asymmetrical fashion without the need of timers.

This pretty much nails the direction we (Goonswarm included) have been begging CCP to go for the last several years.

Actually, in a system with any kind of population, you don't.

Again, you forget that these are extremely easy to detect by anyone Dscanning or probing in that system.

So unless your corp/alliance/blues are complete dicks the POS owner doesn't have to do anymore than he normally does... unless it's in a secluded system. Which encourages you to live where your wealth is.

When you start finding siphons on a regular basis in those systems you might consider changing that policy. Most everyone else is going to. We both know all you need is a scout, no need for everyone in system to sit on the bubble.

I don't really consider it an unreasonable game mechanic to make it desirable to inhabit the space that is a strong revenue stream for your corp. Whether that by yourself, or with renters that monitor your towers for siphons as part of the arrangement, or by giving control of that moon to the renters and taking that into consideration in their rental payment.

Any way you slice it, it's an incentive to live in the space that generates the revenue.

Compared to what you propose the siphon mechanic is a relatively minor incentive, but it is an incentive none-the-less. They are not mutually exclusive.

I will freely admit that low sec has needed some mechanics (other than factional warfare) unique to low sec to provide more reasons to live there (although it's a heck of a lot more populated than it used to be).

I have always hoped that much of low sec would turn into a sort of Barbary Coast, where empire control is feeble at best but still exists. Where crime and piracy are even more prevalent than they are now, but thrive because (mostly) honest folk are drawn there for it's unique natural resources and opportunities to exploit them in ways not allowed in empire.

Sounds like an area where the siphon mechanic would fit right in.

It will all level out, just like every other expansion that we've seen. No need to scream "the sky is falling" .. The game needs a shake up.

other than "picking up materials that accumulated while sleeping" and "putting in more fuel", there really isn't much else for you to do.

I'm not a yank and choose to spell it the way it is spelt in English

Syphon Definition
Maybe you need to learn how to use a dictionary to check facts before name calling

To achieve such thing, you should have patrols at all times, which reduces the number of effectives to do real PVP, therefore other alliances can take advantage of your greed for moongoo.

I haven't read through 66 pages so not sure if someone has already said this but....

Why not just stick a load of siphon units on your own POS (by alt corp if necessary)? Yeah your yield would be down overall, but if it's your siphon units that are installed first don't they get the goo? Anyone else that comes after would have to blow up all your siphon units for it to be profitable for them, and will come under fire by the POS guns?

"hurt goons" should read, "help goons"
I'm sure it was a simple oversight on your part and you hit the wrong keys.

I'm enjoying this change quite a bit. There also seems to be a dynamic that most folks overlook as to why the SOV holders do not want this happening. What comes to mind is currently most moon resources are in the hands of a tiny handful of people in a given alliance. I love the dynamic where anyone can loot the syphon, including members of the corp it's stealing from.

So tell me, what incentive does Joe Schmoe have to pop a syphon, when it lets him take a resource his alliance was never going to share with him in the first place.

I think the SOV holders will say people benefit from the alliance because we provide X Y and Z. But it still remains, you don't give them cash, and this allows your own members to directly take cash anonymously from some entity they're having to normally pay out to.

I can't wait for this feature to go live. ^_^

Hmm. This sounds like a cheap way to get my killboard stats up: anchor siphons on my on POS, and then shoot them. What could go wrong?

I still want to hear you use the word "skill" in relation to this siphon deployable. EVE is, after all, a game featuring character sheets with character skillz on them. Skillz mean that characters are different from each other, in terms of what they can do, and how well they can do what they can do.

But not here. In this particularly case, siphoning, everyone is uniquely alike in that they are all equally good at doing it. Everywhere else, in EVE, there's a skill to differentiate and individualize characters, but for some reason not here.

What is that reason?

And as somebody said, "alts". These units require no skills to deploy, so anyone can deploy them.

On the one hand you guys say this change will do nothing, that your colossal manpower and alts will render these siphons impotent.

On the other hand you say that these same impotent siphons will raise prices, even though they are "impotent," and won't accomplish anything.

Cognitive dissonance much?

I think if you read between the lines of this expansion CCP are saying there needs to be some risk and consequence to having vast empires controlled by relatively few players.

May siphons be deployed anywhere or only within 50Km of a POS? I don't care if they are not operational...